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*nobody*

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Subject:  Pryamids of Mars - Confounded logic!

23/11/2006 14:41 GMT

Anyone recall the scene in Part 4 of Pyramids of Mars where The Doctor is faced with the challenge of working out (by being able to only ask one question) which of the 2 mummies was The Guardian of Truth???

(One was programmed to deceive, the other was programmed to tell the truth - meanwhile Sarah is suffocating!  )

Well, in the Target novel he states:

"Now if I were to ask your chum there, your fellow guardian, which was the switch that meant life - which one would he indicate?"

(the mummy points to the one on the right)

The Doctor then says "I see. So if you're the true guardian, that must be the death switch. And if you're the automatic liar, you're trying to deceive me. So that must still be the death switch."

Now I really suck at logic, and I can see that some form of logic must been used here. But I'm stuffed if I can follow it! 

Can anyone please help make this easy to understand???? I couldn't understand it when I watched the show, and I've re - read this part of the Target novel 10 times, and I just get more and more confused each time.

Also, there's another problem 

How did The Doctor actually defeat Sutekh?
I know that its meant to be due to the time that radio signals take to get from Mars to Earth - but what do radio signals have to do with Sutekh's imprisonment?
I mean, why was Sutekh still imprisoned on Earth after the Eye of Horus was destroyed on  Mars - and what the heck has this to do with radio waves?????

I'm so confused!

 
terry

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Subject:  Re: Pryamids of Mars - Confounded logic!

24/11/2006 00:01 GMT

This is a riddle that possibly predates even the Doctor himself.
Imagine that YOU are the Guardian and that I am the automatic liar.
The doctor asks YOU which switch gives life.
You would truthfully indicate the switch on the left.
If the Doctor were to ask me I would deceitfully indicate the switch on the right, the wrong one.
However, if the Doctor were to ask me what Your answer would be then I would lie and indicate the switch on the right, because the truth is that you would indicate the one on the left.
If the Doctor were to ask You what My answer would be then you would tell him truthfully that My answer would be the switch on the right because I lie.
Either way, the true answer then is the opposite of the answer given.
Probably not a very lucid explanation for you, but in the absence of other replies I hope it helps.
    If not, then I hope someone with better explanatory talent comes along soon.

 
Martin

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Subject:  Re: Pryamids of Mars - Confounded logic!

24/11/2006 06:53 GMT

OK, this works on the basis that the value must be wrong. Irrespective of which guardian you are addressing, the answer must be a lie.

If it's the truthfull guardian, he will truthully indicate the wrong button (as the liar would). And if it's the lying guardian, he will lie as to which button the truthfull guardina would indicate.

B = (T -T) = 0.

The bit about the radio waves takes as proven that the Osirans use some light speed wave form to imprison Sutehk--possibly what Tom Doc found with the Marconiscope.

 
*nobody*

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Subject:  Re: Pryamids of Mars - Confounded logic!

25/11/2006 14:03 GMT

Thanks guys! 

It's beginning to get clearer - but I'm still going to need time to think on it some more.

At least the part about the radio waves makes sense now.
(I *hate* logic  and will need to carefully consider what you have both provided me!)

 
terry

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Subject:  Re: Pryamids of Mars - Confounded logic!

25/11/2006 23:43 GMT

As a little side-step to to this riddle;
      Can anyone determine the origin of this particular poser? I have a suspicion that it was originally Greek (Homers` Odyssey?) but not being a scholar of the Classics {not being a scholar of anything actually} I really have no idea!
But somewhere in my consciousness it ties in with this other puzzle which was used by a writer for some sci-fi series and which I am convinced originated from the Classical era,....
  "Which animal walks on four legs in the morning, two legs in the afternoon and three legs in the evening"?
  The answer, I`m sure, is easy but am I right regarding its` source ?

    MARTIN; put your hand down. Give someone else a chance to answer.

 
Martin

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Subject:  Re: Pryamids of Mars - Confounded logic!

26/11/2006 03:33 GMT

Yeah you're right--I do know the answers but I want to see someone else come up with the goods!

 
terry

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Subject:  Re: Pryamids of Mars - Confounded logic!

28/11/2006 22:58 GMT

Actually, there is another more pressing riddle that bothers me. Threads!
I can make a guess but, sticky threads,etc,..?!?
Anyone care to explain ? It would be appreciated.
Is that you with your hand up, Martin?

 
Martin

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Subject:  Re: Pryamids of Mars - Confounded logic!

29/11/2006 01:06 GMT

I don't understand the question? You mean what are sticky threads? If so, the administrator can choose to have some of these discussions always remain at the top of the forum, depite incativity--it's usually done for notices.

Last modified: 29/11/2006 01:07 GMT by Martin
terry

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Subject:  Re: Pryamids of Mars - Confounded logic!

02/12/2006 23:36 GMT

On the title page to general discussions, there are markers for Default-Sticky-Locked-Locked sticky threads.
I`m sure I am showing my ignorance but, apart from the threads reference, I have no idea what what the rest of the terminology means.
Anyone help ?

 
Martin

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Subject:  Re: Pryamids of Mars - Confounded logic!

03/12/2006 01:15 GMT

Default thread you participated in
~ means you've added comment to this thread.

Sticky thread you participated in
~ means the administrator has made the thread stay at the top of the list of threads, and you've added comment.

Locked thread you participated in
~ means the admin's stopped any more additions to this thread, and you've added comment while it was unlocked.

Locked Sticky thread you participated in
~ means this thread's been both locked, made to stay at the top of the list, and you've added comment.

 

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