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axelf

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Subject:  Mawdryn Undead

14/04/2006 09:39 GMT

What is the official explanation for the time paradox in this story?



The doctor meets the Brig in 1983 as a school teacher.



But the UNIT stories were set in the 1980s during the Pertwee era.



How can the Brig be a school teacher if he's meant to be in UNIT at this stage?



So does this mean that Mawdryn Undead is set in a parallel universe?

 
Martin

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Subject:  Re: Mawdryn Undead

14/04/2006 12:13 GMT

There isn't one. The Pertwee production team intended their stories to be set in the late seventies, with this explaining things like the British space program. The only real on screen evidence (discluding things like visible calenders) in from the Hinchcliffe/Holmes era--Sarah's claim to come from "1980" in Pyramids of Mars. JNT and Eric Saward either never knew this or forgot. Season 20 also marks the first time the show had enjoyed the services of a continuity consultant (ie fan) in the form of Ian Levine.

 
axelf

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Subject:  Re: Mawdryn Undead

14/04/2006 23:26 GMT

ok thanks.  I've thought of another continuity gaffe...



In 'The Two Doctors' it's shown that Doc 2 has a dematerialisation circuit.  How can he have this if he was on the run from the timelords during his era?



I have read somewhere that this may have been a reward for him helping out the timelords during 'The Three Doctors', but if that's so - then why would the Timelords put him on Trial during 'The War Games' if they had forgiven him?

 
Martin

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Subject:  Re: Mawdryn Undead

15/04/2006 00:11 GMT

The real reason is that Robert Holmes had forgotten that Pertwee was the Doctor he wrote for who was always off on missions for the Time Lords! He did return to this theme again with Tom.



There is a canonical reason, unrecognized by the television show but acknowledged by such authorities as Terrance Dicks. The Discontinuity Guide by Cornell, Day, and Topping suggests possible explanations for continuity mistakes. They put a case that the returns of the Second Doctor are from a mysterious untelevised season following 6, which they called 6b. In return for concessions from the Time Lords he becomes their agent. There was a review of this proposed season in Chameleon Factor 78 including material as disparate as the return appearances on TV, novels, short stories, the TV Comic strips where he has become a gun toting killing machine and even the Sky Ray Ice Lolly collectible cards!

 
*nobody*

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Subject:  Re: Mawdryn Undead

16/04/2006 11:40 GMT

LOL the gun toting killing machine Doctor!!!!

I've just been reading excerpts of the 2nd Doctor blasting away his adversaries from Dr Who annuals in the late 60s. In the one that I've just read, he uses a ray gun to kill some evil creature, and yells out "Die hideous creature! Die!" They really had no idea!!!!



Axel F has made another very good point and now I'm totally confused.......how the heck can

"In 'The Two Doctors' it's shown that Doc 2 has a dematerialisation circuit."



This DOES NOT make sense. Not one bit. And I don't think it can be just written off as Holmes had just 'forgotten'. this is obviously a glaring error on the part of Holmes (a BIG surpirse!!!), Saward (a moderate surpise) and JNT (no bloody surprise at all!!!!)

> However, I refuse to watch "The Two Doctors" again (I did NOT like that story) and I cannot remember this point that Axel F. has raised being in this one - so I'm just taking you guys words as gospel here.

If Axel F is right, then the writers and production team really f***ed up with this one!

 
Martin

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Subject:  Re: Mawdryn Undead

16/04/2006 13:38 GMT

Oh, yeah, he's right. It's disappointing that Holmes got it wrong--he if anyone should have known better. But we start The Two Doctors with (quite blatantly) the Time Lords sending the Doctor and Jamie on a mission. They steer the TARDIS. The crew make a reference to dropping Victoria off for "graphology" lessons, implying they'll be able to pick her up again. As for graphology--this could be intelligence type training!  At the end of the piece Troughton Doctor calls his TARDIS back with a "Stattenheim remote control", cryptically saying "Some of us have earned these little privileges"...by shooting JFK and drowning Harold Holt, perhaps?

 
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Subject:  Re: Mawdryn Undead

16/04/2006 14:00 GMT

LOL!!!!



I totally forgot that they (the doctor and Jamie were on a mission from the Timelords). Well, that totally screws up the whole Dr Who mythology completely!!!!! Literally!!!!!!!

there is no fixing that one up. It makes a complete fabrication of the whole of Hartnell and Troughton's legacy - so the trial at the conclusion of "The War Games" was based on nothing, cos the Time Lords were already aware of the Doctor........how the heck did Doctor 2 think he could run away if his TARDIS could be sent on missions? Why was he running away? Was he even put on trial if he was already working as an agent for the Time lords? Why didn't Jamis know about the Time Lords before "The War Games" if he had been with the Doctor in Saville? How could the Doctor earn anything if at that stage (Troughton/Hartnell) he was most definitely a renegade, on the run from his own race???? etc, etc, etc ,etc,etc



This is a bloody mess!!!!



Holmes - who is my favourite writer for the series - it grieves me to say, has absoloultely stuffed it with this whole story (and I can recall these events now, though I don't want to, cos I didn't like the bloody story!).

You can't possibly fix this mess. It makes a complete mockery of Dr Who (Hartnell, Troughton and Pertwee)



Why would an intellect with the skill of Holmes make such a shambles of the show's narrative? It's that fragmented that even the term 'postmodern' couldn't be applied to it!!!



Bloody hell - this really is a mess!!!!!!

 

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