I know a little about it, and it's a radical departure from the story as concieved by Pedler/Davis.



And I don't really want to know any more. Places like DWM and internet news sites will have all the spoilers anyone could desire!

Would be good if they had the Cyber Leader in it.



But as long as the story isn't like 'Revenge of the Cybermen' - that was the worst Cyberman story in my opinion, dull and didn't go anywhere.



Second worst would be 'Silver Nemesis' - a story that cried out to be done as a 4 parter - too many things were crammed into that one.

I cry out "Why did they ever even do "Siver Nemesis!!!!".



I can't wait to see Martin's reaction to your statement about "Revenge"!!!!!



> Changing the Cybermen's history?

Whoops!!!!

They had better do that very, very well because it is well documented, scientifically, philosophically, and cosmologically by THE Cyber Leader, David Banks (bloody brilliant book "Doctor Who - the Cybermen" by David Banks, 1989 - Highly recommend the read)

Martin agrees; it's not  a great story and my love of it is quite irrational. Same goes for Death to the Daleks.

A pity 'The Tenth Planet' is incomplete.  I only saw the first 3 eps, but was quite impressed by them (for that era).



I've always been wondering why the Cybermen never showed up during Pertwee's time.  A story between them and his doctor would have been a good one I think. 



They could have written one with The Master controlling the Cybermen - which would have been a nice link to 'The Five Doctors' later on...

Yeah Axelf, a Cybermen story with Pertwee would have been magnificent. But I think maybe they over used the Cybermen during Troughton's Era and that's why there was a bit of a break



Still the Pertwee Era has many great first's of it's own, the introduction of the Sulirians, Sea Devils, and the Master (The Real Master, not Jimmy's favourite Patomine Anthony Ainley version :-P ) heheheheh

Pertwee's Doctor facing off against the Cyber Leader would have been magnificent. the Cyber Leader's use of brutal cold logic against Pertwee's moral dogmatism would have made for great dialogue and philosophical issues (especially if it was co - written by Robert Sloman with Kit Pedler/Gerry Davis). And there would have been lots of action (though I can't see the Doctor's use of Venusian karate being of much use against the Cybermen )



> In one of my Doctor Who Magazines it explains why they never used the Cybermen in Pertwee's era, but I just can't be bothered going through them all to find the entry. Sorry.

I think Sneb's point about theor over use during the Troughton years did play a part in their non - apperance during Pertwee's time. *But over 5 years was a long, long time - and then we had to wait 6 years before they would re appear again in the masterpiece, "Earthshock".



> The Sea Devils and The Silurians WERE great new adversaries. But were they adversaries???? In keeping witht he moral dilemmas of Pertwee's era, we find that both these creatures had their own culture, civilisation and morality, and weren't ruthless destroyers. They both were lying dormant from another time on Earth, and had wanted to regain their dominion.



> The Master - a fantastic 'baddie' who was just over used to the point of absurdity during the 'reign of Turner'. If they could ever catch the evil charm of Delgado's Master again, it would be great. It's such a shame that they turned him  (and everything else in the whoniverse) into such a sham during the McCoy years.

(Shame on you, Turner and Cartmel - SHAME, SHAME, SHAME!!!!!!!!)

The Cybermen had a cameo in the miniscope in Carnival of Monsters, but interestingly I'm sure I've seen edits of this story withou them! Also Pertwee's press call featured him frolicing with a Cyberman and a Yeti.



The moral dillema in The Silurians is the best conflict in the Pertwee era, the equivelant of Tom's "Do I have the right" speech in Genesis. One of the disapointing things about Ambassadors of Death is the "humerous" opening scene. Following on from the magnificent end of The Silurians it seems an anti-climax.

'Attack of the Cybermen' was a pretty bad story.  Basically a re-hash of every Cybermen story up to that point, and the Cyber leader in that one was awful.



There was some scandal attached to that story if I recall - the alledged 'author' of that story didn't actually write it or something, and Eric Saward was the real writer.



The only Cybermen story that worked during the JNT era was Earthshock, but only because you could understand what was going on for once.

"Earthshock" was THE Cybermen story!!! THE BEST!!!!!



> "The Silurians" is an absolute classic, but you can forget it's incidental music. that, like "Death to the Daleks" is a pain on the ears!!!!

.......find it hard to ever put a moral dilemma on par with Baker's "Do I have the right?" speech in "Genesis of the Daleks". That was Dr Who at its zenith. (Together with "The Deadly Assassin", "Earthshock", "Spearhead From Space", "The Sea Devils", "City of Death", etc. , etc, !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Spearhead from Space would have to be the best debut for a Doctor.



Everything about that story gelled, the villains, companions, etc.



But is there anyone here who has a kind word to say about 'Planet of the Spiders'???

I'd be surprised if there wasn't; it tends to rate well on fan polls!

I don't think Planet of the Spiders came together as well as it should have.  Perhaps had it been a 4 parter instead, may have made the story more tighter.



Season 11 was very much a mixed bag though.  Pertwee should have left at the end of Season 10.  The team was getting tired and the quality of the stories went down considerably.

Most of episode two could have been written off without losing much. The best thing about Planet of the Spiders  was the Doctor's attempt to recruit Professor Clegg--and that was just a throwaway idea! If he'd lived and they teamed him up with Tommy they could have done Torchwood on the '70s!



Does anyone have any other characters from the UNIT era who could have gone on to be part of such a series? I've already mentioned on another thread how well it worked when UNIT forced the Master to help them; Tommy could have resisted his hypnosis and been his jailer and Clegg the cowardly psychic would have been a great intelligence tool! Who else?



This could be the next round robin!

Another thing about good old season 11 is that it was the first colour one we got. Every year we'd get our new Who on good old Aunty ABC (usually minus one story) , then a bunch of repeats. When they introduced colour they stopped playing B&W repeats and doled out the new Who in teeny timy doses. In Adelaide season 11 was The Time Warrior, Death to the Daleks and Monster of Peladon. They held over Planet of the Spiders for *two* years, and when they finally played it the repeat season consisted of the other three season 11 stories.



More details in the current Chameleon Factor.

Very interesting info there Martin.



What's your thoughts on The Time Warrior?  I thought it was a weak opening for a new season - although I must admit that the new titles for Pertwee were really good.



For me, the only good story in that season was Death to the Daleks.

I like Death to the Daleks; although I can see its flaws. I like Time Warrior less, but have an irrational love of seasons 11 and 12, irrespective of their actual quality. With the exception of Invasion of the Dinosuars, which I didn't see until I was a teen.

Seaon 12 was overall quite good, but I thought that 'Robot' was a slighlty weak start to the Baker era - the story didnt seem to come together as well as it could have.



Any thoughts on the various 2 parters that the series had?  Most of them seemed too rushed, but 'Black Orchad' is a fave 2 parter of mine.

HOW can you dis season 11???????!!!!!!!

(In my younger days I would have challenged you to a duel over that!!!!!)



"Planet of the Spiders" encapsulated all that was the Pertwee years - the eclectic mix of science, Buddhism and Philosophy. the facing of one's own fears and mistakes, and thereby becoming a better person; the Pertwee morality fable. It had plenty of action and stunts - another hallmark of the Pertwee years. No, that was an exceptionally good way to farewell one of the best Doctors.



And how can you knock "The Time Warrior"?????!!!!!! Classic stuff, that was! Plenty of action, a great yarn, and it had good dialogue!!! I know, some (ok, most!) of the medieval characters were over played, BUT it was still classic stuff. Lynx's outlook on humanity was amusing, and the Sontarans made an indelible mark on the show that has lasted ever since the toad first showed his face at the cliffhanger for part one.



> Now, as for "Robot", I think that was the weakest Dicks/Letts story ever (together with the Peladon travesties and "The Mutants"). I find it incredible that Tom Baker was able to go on and become the most successful Doctor ever after such a woefully bad start.

(They qucikly made up for it with "The Ark In Space" - in came Hinchcliffe/Homes - the 'undisputed' masters of Dr Who)

I really like Black Orchid--the only flaw for me is that they're put in a quandry to prove the Doctor isn't a murder...but find the TARDIS in time. If they'd thought their way out of it it'd be perfect. Ignoring the season 22 "two parters" there were two other Davisons and two Hartnells. Like the Hartnell ones, is the kindest thing to say about the other Davision ones!