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Martin

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Subject:  Seasons! in random order!

03/10/2006 13:00 GMT

Series 2--it's on TV now!

Season 5--the Monster season!

Season 11--Sarah Jane and bye bye Jon!

Season 22--video nasty!

Season 19--hello Peter, good bye Adric!

Season 18--bye Tom!

Season 8--the year of the Master!

Season 3--Dalek epic!

Season 10--travellin' again!

Season 15--K9 arrives!

Season 1--it's all new!

Series 1--the football hooligan Doc!

Season 25--silver anniversary!

Season 26--the end for now!

Season 4--a time of change

Season 6--caught!

Season 23--Trial of a TV Show!

Season 7--in colour!

Season 17--and then they were married!

Season 24--Sylvester McWig!

Season 16--Key to ratings!

Season 9--the Time Lords' messenger!

Season 20--Arc of Anniversary!

Season 12--hello Tom!

Season 14--Gothic opera!

Season 21--goodbye Peter!

Season 2--the cast can change!

Season 13--horror like Hammer!

 
Martin

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Subject:  Re: Seasons! in random order!

03/10/2006 13:04 GMT

Yet another squash table.

This time, we're assessing seasons on the following criteria--



1. cohesivness--does it work well as a unified piece of serial?

2. development--do you know more as you progress?

3. and, of course, story content...we'd be lying otherwise...



The new years are termed "series" to differentiate...



Drivers! Start your engines!

 
Martin

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Subject:  Re: Seasons! in random order!

03/10/2006 13:10 GMT

And first up, a shocker of a dropper, a fight for the right, a test of who's best...



In the red corner, weighing 13 episodes, starring David Tennant...series 2!



And in the blue corner, weighing 40 episodes--13 in existence, starring Patrick Troughton...season 5!



Ding ding!

 
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Subject:  Re: Seasons! in random order!

03/10/2006 15:06 GMT

Well, MC, I must say that this is NOT a fair fight!



You've got the mighty Tennant up against the pixi who hasn't even got all his stories in existence.



The 'little one' doesn't stand a chance with this......



but wait........there's the telesnaps. And the audio series........maybe the little Dr can put up a fight?????



So, starting with cohesiveness.......



Troughton doesn't have it there. The show was doing its 'magical mystery tour' - and to quote from The Web of Fear - the TARDIS crew said in unison, "I wonder where we'll end up this time?"

This era was a surprise each week, with the little Dr getting into all sorts of trouble, with stocky Jamie to defend him, and Victria being menaced by bog eyed monsters.



Whilst with continuity we have Tennant's continuing advenures with the spectre of the BBCs spin - off of Torchwood mysteriously lurking in all the story plots.......and then we have the continuing drama of Rose Tyler's existence with The Doctor.



It will have to go to Tennant for cohesion.



Ding! Ding! Series 2 for that one!



Development -



Well, we knew absolutley nothing of any substance about The Doctor or his companions in Season 5, except for that brief bit of fatherly counsel he gives to Victoria in Tomb of the Cybermen about how to remember one's deceased parents.



As for Tennant - we know that it looks as though the fate of the Earth lies in Rose Tyler's hands again (!) AND we have Torchwood, the enigmatic organisation that may be more of a nemesis to the Doctor than a friend.



Ding! Ding! For develpment, the winner is Series 2, David Tennant.



Now, story content.........



Season 5 had four and six part stories aplenty with complex narratives and characters we got to know - example Professor Travers.........oh, and that chap who becomes a Brigadier later in the series!



Whilst with Tennant, it's becoming The Rose Tyler show, a marketing tool for the spin - off Torchwood.........and we get what was once a minimum of 90 minutes of story (classic series) condensed into a wham - bam - thank you - mam 45 minutes, where you're left wondering "What the heck happened?" and no development of any characters except The Doctor and Rose.



Ding! Ding! For story content.......the winner is the little one from Season 5 - the stories had intrigue, suspense, and cliffhangers that back in the 1960s sent London's children cwering behind the sofa!!!!





I must say that this new squash table is going to need an essay for each season contest in order to cover the 3 categories..........I don't think I'm going to be able to keep this up!!!!!!

Seriously!

 
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Subject:  Re: Seasons! in random order!

03/10/2006 22:39 GMT

hmm, I'll get back to you guys on this one, hard to write a long paragraph while at work!!!!

 
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Subject:  Re: Seasons! in random order!

04/10/2006 04:58 GMT

ok, back.



Whew, what can I add to Jimmy's already thorough essay???



I agree with most of his points, although I know Series 2 much better than Season 5, which there is hardly much off.



Series 2 wins in a big way, atlhough had every episode been in existence for Season 5, it may have been a different story....

 
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Subject:  Re: Seasons! in random order!

05/10/2006 04:48 GMT

Cohesiveness: season five's been seen as having a very simple unifying factor: monsters! It introduced the Ice Warriors, Yeti and Great Intelligence, and the one story that didn't involve a monster featured the not-so original idea of having the lead play a double, perhaps suggesting Troughton was the greatest monster of them all (or perhaps not). However, this is open for dispute. Series two appears to be more of a piece than five.



Development: In five we see a crew member leave, and another join. They incorporate the first ever repeat of a whole story into the series continuity. As Jimmy points out, we get the Doc reminiscing about his family, as does Victoria. In two we see a new Doctor come into his own, and the supporting cast become more than cardboard cutouts.



Content: Five has some all time favorites, of which frustratingly only one story exists complete. Two's content has been disappointing, with a couple of highlights demonstrating how below par much of the writing has been.



As, as Jimmy's assessed it, two wins on the first two points, with an upset for the third bout. Series two by one point!



And now...from the age of disco, weighing 26 episodes, and starring a man who knew how to dress like a fop, the underdog...season 11!



And from the era of synth, weighing a mere 13 episodes of a rather larger sort, and starring a man who didn't know he was dressed like a pin cushion, the mauler...season 22!



Ding ding!

 
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Subject:  Re: Seasons! in random order!

05/10/2006 22:41 GMT

hmm  not much of a choice, as Im not  a fan of either seasons!  But here goes:



Cohesivness - Season 11 for sure.  Season 22 was very 'muddled' to put it mildly.  The quality of the stories varied wildly from good to appalling.  So on that scale Season 11 wins for at least having more 'together' story arcs.



Development:  Again Season 11, eg:  Captain Yates turning 'bad' in Invasion of the Dinasours, Pertwee finishing his era, Baker moving in.  Sarah Jane arriving, I could go on.



Season 22's development cycle seemed to centre on the endless bikering between Dr 6 and Peri, hardly character building I would think.



Story Content, Season 11 wins again, as the stories were at least entertaining, despite my reservations about the quality of the special effects.  Again Season 22s story content left a lot to be desired and focused too heavily on the Drs past foes.



So Season 11 wins on all counts in my book!

 
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Subject:  Re: Seasons! in random order!

06/10/2006 06:25 GMT

Cohesiveness--agreed, if season 22 was "about" anything it was "how close can we get to being canned" (quite close as it turns out!). Season 11 shows it's heart on its sleeve-- enviroment, common market, war, they all come in for a critique, where 22 makes a good stab at television and little else. Eleven it is!



Development--well, Colin stops trying to kill Peri, if that's much chop! The other strange and disturbing development is Troughton Doc being an agent of the Time Lords, leading into the season 6b theory. Yuck! Eleven has a nice mini arc, albeit one which was lost on Australian viewers without Invasion of the Dinosaurs. Again...11!



Content!--this is where 11 comes in for much criticism, although I still like it meself. Compare Revelation to Death...it's gotta be Pertwee! The epic Two Doctors to the epic Planet of the Spiders...Pertwee! Vengence, Attack, Mark and Timelash to Warrior, Invasion, and Monster...I'm giving it to Pertwee! And it had the best title sequence ever!



So, it's far from a forgone conclusion, but season 11 wins!



And in the red corner, it's the new boy, weighing 26 stories, with three companions and feckless to the end, it's season 19!



And in the blue corner, it's the old boy, weighing 28 stories, with variable companions and a spell in E-space, it's season 18!



Ding ding!

 
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Subject:  Re: Seasons! in random order!

06/10/2006 07:26 GMT

hmm interesting round this one.



COHESIVNESS



Season 18 without doubt.  From the start, the season slowly built up to the finale, and showed the vulnerable side to the Baker dr.  There seemed to be an impending sense of finality to each story. The E-Space trilogy was very good as well, and each of those stories fitted in together perfectly.



Season 19's stories didn't seem to have a general arc, except for Earthshock and Timeflight, which dealt with Adric's death.



DEVELOPMENT:



Season 18 gradually built up its mood, climaxing with Keeper of Traken/Logopolis.  Romana & K9 left, and 3 new companions were introduced. Plus the return of The Master and debut of Dr 5.



Whilst there was certainly a fair bit of character development in Season 19, I'll go for Season 18, as there were several important 'moments' throughout.



STORY CONTENT



The actual stories in Season 19 were certainly entertaining, with Kinda & Black Orchid being personal favourites, I'll have to go with Season 18 again for its story content.



The stories of that season had genuine depth to them and some interesting sci fi concepts that were missing from Season 19.  Season 19 was the 'Style season', while Season 18 was the 'Substance one'.



Season 18 was the season where JNT was 'held on the leash' by Letts, Bidmead, etc. I often wonder what the quality of the following seasons would have been like had JNT not been given such a free reign.



So for me, Season 18 wins all sections....atlhough I do have a fond likeness for some of the Season 19 stories.







 
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Subject:  Re: Seasons! in random order!

06/10/2006 08:50 GMT

I agree pretty much straight down the line. If 19 had a theme it was "returning Tegan to Heathrow". Season 18 had some low points--I find Meglos utterly forgettable, and 19 had some great moments--I particularly like The Visitation--but it's 18 on all three criteria.



In the orange corner, wighing 25 episodes, 19 still in colour, it's the man with the perm versus the man with the goatee--

season 8!



And in the scarlet corner, weighing 35 episodes with 16 in existance, it's the longest ever non-Colin Baker story, it's goodbye to Stephen, Viki *and* Dodo, it's the introduction of umbrella titles, it's...season 3!



Ding ding!

 
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Subject:  Re: Seasons! in random order!

06/10/2006 09:40 GMT

I have to start by saying that I've seen very little of Season 3, so this may turn out to be a win for Season 8 by default...



COHESIVNESS



Season 3 had the epic Dalek Masterplan, but around that story, there were other elements which contributed to the success of that one.  Mission to the Unknown and the following story all tied into 'Masterplan' quite well.



Season 8 of course had The Master in every story, which gave an immediate link to each of them, and every plot seemed to build up in intensity. Plus you learned something more about each of The UNIT team members plus The Master with each story.



Season 8 wins for this one.



DEVELOPMENT



Season 3 - Vicki Leaves, Katerinia joins/becomes first companion death, Sarah Kingdom joines/dies, Dodo joins.



Season 8 - Jo joins, The Master appears, the UNIT team properly come together, The Autons return.



On the basis of development, I'll go for Season 3, as the deaths of the Drs companions would have made for shocking tv at that time.



I understand that the introduction of The Master was a very important development in the history of Dr Who, but I feel that the production team behind Season 3 were courageous enough to kill of some core cast members for the first time...a device which was used a few times later on.



STORY CONTENT



With this section, I'll have to give it to Season 8, as I've seen little of Season 3.  Having said that, most of the stories in Season 8 are classics - Terror of the Autons is a superb Dr Who story, as well as The Daemons.



Call me biased, but I think Dr Who really 'came of age' with Season 8, which cemented its place for years to come.

 
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Subject:  Re: Seasons! in random order!

09/10/2006 13:39 GMT

It's very hard (i.e. time consuming!!!!) to put together a complex argument that compliments the appraisals that you guys have made, but I must say (without elaboration) that:



Season 8 was the winner in my books

and that, contrary to popular opinion,

Season 19 was far superior to Season 18 (Earthshock, Castrovalva and The Visitation beaten by The Keeper of Traken, Meglos and The Leisure Hive - NEVER!!!!)

 
Martin

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Subject:  Re: Seasons! in random order!

09/10/2006 16:46 GMT

Eight certainly had a theme, albeit "Doctor trapped on Earth meets his Moriarty", where three just seems to because it's dominated by one h-u-g-e story!



Three suffers from the sudden departure of Tosh and Wiles; the most adventurous production team in the show's history. This leads to the writing out of Katarina before she's even set foot in the Tardis (and Adrienne Hill shooting her death scene before anything else), and the incoming Lloyd and Davis proceeding to dispose of her replacement, Dodo! It's an achievement that there was any kind of development with the musical chairs behind the scenes. I'll go for eight; not as consistant or inclined to build on itself (as when they throw the bomb in the canal running past UNIT HQ...what???!!!), but more of an ongoing story.



And finally content. I'll confess, The Daemons isn't one of my favourites, but equally Galaxy Four works better as a plot bunny than a script. Terror makes Spearhead look like it's set in slow motion (the new companion is set on bombing UNIT--by the end of the first episode!) but is ultimatly flawed in resolution. Mind you, the Master's escape makes up for this! I'd compare it to The War Machines; format setting! Colony in Space is quite fun--and one of my favourite Targets--and does as much as The Invasion for identifying corporations as the new bad guys. I'd pair it with The Mind of Evil and send them both to take on Daleks Master Plan and Mission to the Unknown. What are we left with? Three under-rated historicals, The Ark--part success, part tragedy--The Savages and The Celestial Toymaker. Keeping in mind it's ten episodes longer than eight, all we're left with from the seventies is Claws of Axos, one of my favourites!



So--cohesiveness and development go to eight, content to three.



In the green corner, weighing twenty six episodes, Jon-Doc, it's Jo, Omega and the first colour Troughton, it's season 10!



And in the heliotrope corner, weighing twenty six episodes, it's Tom-Doc, it's Leela, it's K-9 and it's Edmund Pegge--it's season 15!



Ding ding!

 
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Subject:  Re: Seasons! in random order!

09/10/2006 21:29 GMT

righteo here goes (deep breath)



COHESIVNESS



Season 10 for sure.  The developments at the end of The Three Doctors allowed Doc 3 to finally travel thru time and space on his own, which led directly to the next set of stories.



Frontier in Space/Planet of the Daleks were both linked together, and seemed to essentially be a 12 part story, with The Master/Daleks taking turns as the main villains.



Season 15 simply didnt have the same 'togetherness', although the introduction of K9 did directly influence the tone of the show thereafter.



For me, Season 10 wins this section.



DEVELOPMENT



Season 10:  First 3 drs unite for the first time, Dr 3 gets his memory back re: working the Tardis, Final appearance of the Delgado Master, Jo leaves.  All of these things greatly influenced the story content and direction of Dr Who for seasons to come afterwards, and was the beginning of the end of the Pertwee era.



Season 15:  K9 joins, Leela leaves, Dr returns to Gallifrey to battle the Sontarons.  Apart from that, not much else.  In terms of character building, I don't think the Graham Williams era was well known for that.



Season 10 wins this one as well.



STORY CONTENT



Season 10.  The Three Drs was a fun anniversary story, with a great villain in Omega.  Carnival of Monsters was reasonably enjoyable, although the special effects left a bit to be desired.  Frontier/Planet seemed rather overlong and drawn out.  Green Death was a pretty good send off for Jo.



I think the length of the stories let the general plotting down somewhat, too much padding seemed to be in play.



Season 15:  Horror of Fang Rock was an excellent Terrence Dicks story, very atmospheric, although the sight of a green jelly like Rutan was pretty lame - especially after all the build up of it.



The Invisible Enemy was ok, although it tended to get rather silly towards the end.



Image of the Fendhal I thought was a great story, one of my faves.  The sight of the glowing skull scared me witless as a kid.  I have very fond memories of this one.



The Sun Makers was a very witty and topical Robert Holmes script which still stands up today very well.  Great production design too.



Underworld was very forgettable, very weak story.  The use of CSO in almost every scene was a big mistake too.



invasion of Time was ok, but very drawn out, and tended to get very silly as it went on. As for Leela leaving to marry a guard - rubbish!!!



On the whole, I have to say I enjoyed the stories of Season 15 more, found them more entertaining, with more stand out stories.



Whew! over to you guys!!

 
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Subject:  Re: Seasons! in random order!

12/10/2006 08:05 GMT

Im ready for another round of this if you are guys!!

 
Martin

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Subject:  Re: Seasons! in random order!

13/10/2006 00:52 GMT

I don't find either 10 or 15 particularly cohesive.



The development in 15 is better left unremarked upon! Both the addition of the silliest companion until Kings Demons, and the bizarre writing out of the other companion. Ten on the other hand works in so many ways. For a start the production team were breaking the Earth only rule from Ambassadors of Death on, so here they formally abandon it.



Ten had a pretty good run; Planet of the Daleks being the weakest candidate. Fifteen was disappointing from start to finish. Strangely, I've always thought of Invisible Enemy as the point where the show became "recent", and lost something.



So that's either, 10, 10!



In the vermilion corner, weighing 42 episodes, with 33 still existing it's the granddaddy, the progenitor, the man who smokes and laughs evilly, it's season 1!



And in the burnt orange, weighing 13 episodes, it's the young buck, straight from a riot at Old Trafford, it's series 1!



Ding ding!

 
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Subject:  Re: Seasons! in random order!

13/10/2006 06:36 GMT

and so another round continues...



COHESIVNESS:



Generally most of the stories of Season 1 were linked together, with each serial ending with a small cliffhanger into the next. 



Series 1 overall had a few themes going on, with the Bad Wolf motif linking several of the stories.



In terms of cohesivness, I'd call this a dead draw.



DEVELOPMENT



Season 1 was the start of the whole thing, and established a mythology which was built upon in years to come.  The characters eventually became a team and learnt to trust each other - 'Edge of Destruction' is a good example of this.  The introduction of the Daleks of course gave the show the early boost it needed, and never looked back.



Series 1 was the series return and had to establish a new fanbase as well as satisfying the old one.  The brooding 9th Dr finally seemed to come to terms with what happened to Gallifrey by the end of the series, and established a good rapport with Rose.



I find the parallels between these 2 series very interesting, as there was a lot at stake, with failure not really being an option.



I feel that actual character development was more successful in Season 1.



So in  terms of development, Season 1 wins.



STORY CONTENT



Having recently again seen the first few stories of Season 1, I have to say that they still stand up very well today.  But to be honest, I've never been a fan of the early historical stories - they always seem rather slowly paced.  Of course others would no doubt disagree!



So for me, Series 1 wins this section, as I found it to be consistenly enjoyable with many new surprises that kept me as a viewer, on my toes.

 
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Subject:  Re: Seasons! in random order!

14/10/2006 04:57 GMT

For cohesion I'll go with series one here. The first year of the show was the most highly pre-developed, but the production itself changed the focus. By the time the show's been kick started in the noughties most writers have a pretty good idea what it is.



Season one develops at a furious rate. As a non-fan who saw An Unearthly Child in the 2003 repeats said "What dude--school teacher to hero in one episode!". I'll go with season one.



As for content, I can't go past season one. Both years have hight and low points, but season one has higher highs and lower lows, so I'm giving it the nod for trying harder!



In the puce corner, weighing 14 episodes, it's the 25th year of Who, it's Sylvester getting the part down, it's a critical about face, it's season 25!



And in the chartreuse corner, it's the end but the moment's been prepared for, it's season 26!



Ding ding!

 
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Subject:  Re: Seasons! in random order!

14/10/2006 08:12 GMT

and so we continue...



COHESIVNESS:



Season 25 finally saw the series settle down after the turbulance of the previous 2 seasons. McCoy had settled in as best as he could, with better stories.  Silver Nemesis and Remembrance of the Daleks did their best to celebrate the 25th year, but generally the stories had little in relation to each other.



Season 26 saw the McCoy era hit its straps, with more complicated plotting than usual, with his Dr being more of a mentor figure to Ace.  The stories in this season dealt mainly with Ace's past, and slowly built up to its last serial very well.



Season 26 wins this one.



DEVELOPMENT



We learn a bit more about the Dr's past in Season 25, and see a further establishment of his relationship with Ace.  The Daleks and Cybermen returned.



Season 26 saw the return of the Brigadeer, The Master and the end of the classic series.



I'll go with Season 26 for development, as the show finally seemed to be getting somewhere.



STORY CONTENT



Whilst the stories in Season 25 were reasonably fun to watch - I have a good fondness for Greatest Show in the Galaxy, again I'll go for Season 26, as I feel the stories were more interesting and complex than usual.



Having said all of that, I still think the McCoy era had more bad stories than good ones, and Time & The Rani just had to be the worst start a Dr could ever have - and that includes The Twin Dilemma !!!!!

 

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