We've had Attack of the Cybermen 1 (a dark shadow on the drain wall), what's your least favourite fake cliffhanger from this year of Doctor Who?

Well, I think the cliffhangers to "Four To Doomsday" parts one and two have got be the biggest non events in the show's history ("I'm Enlightenment" and "I'm Persuasion" - I'm sure many a young child was terrified by those chilling introductions!!!!!) - but then wait until you see the cliffhanger to the edited part one of "Timelash" - pointless is the best word to describe that one!!!



There's also the cliffhanger to part three of "Enlightenment" with Captain Wrack talking at the camera - the over acting and ludicrous dialogue was that bad that it was scary!!!!!!

The real cliffhanger from Attack of the Cybermen (part 2 as we get it here) isn't much better; he tells the cybermen to stop and they thoughtfully do. Then they let him turn the Tardis into a bomb (!) and dictate conditions. In a story overwhelming with clever ideas which executes none of them particularly well, this takes the prize for sheer "wha???".

The *forced* cliffhangers for season 23 are woefully bad - they're farcical!!!!!!



Did you see how they 'cliffhanged' Part One of "Vengeance on Varos"? It was that silly and such a complete non event, that although I only just watched it this evening, I can't actually recall it!!!

And then there's more than three minutes of the previous episode as well........the 'forced' cliffhangers do no justice to these stories at all. And they need all the help they can get, considering this is the darkest time in the show's history.



And you're absolutely right about "Attack of the Cybermen" - a cluttered story with too many plot devices/twists, poor voices (the cyber Lieutenant sounded like he missed puberty!), an overweight Cyber Controller, and too much sentimentality (with regard to the narrative continuity of the show - Totter's Lane, Chameleon circuits, etc.).

*After "Earthshock" (the Cyber masterpiece and the jewel in the crown of 1980s Doctor Who), this story just does not measure up*

Can't say I've seen it

Hey Jimmy,



The cliffhanger that you can't recall is very dramatic.... The Tardis flying with its last remants of power manages to land on Varos in the pushniment dome.... the guard on duty at the execution sees the Tardis land AND THEN............... the Doctor looking at the view screen says....... "Ahhh who is that come to meet us?" (Or something like that) Now if that doesn't deserve an Academy Award then nothing does LOL... just kidding.



I must say though I am very happy that Colin Baker is on the TV at the moment as he is my favourite Doctor... sounds strange I know! But look at the way he portrays the character, unsucessful and unpopular 20 years ago but put him in the part today and he would be a star

Colin Baker is an operatic and egoentric over the top extremist!!!!!

I watch him now and cringe. When I was 10, he was one of my favourite Doctors - *However, I met him at  "Inside the TARDIS" and the person himself is a gentlman.*



I think Nathan - turner's vision (or lack of) was the problem. He should have left the show in 1984 (with Davison's departure) and not modelled the Doctor as his own alter - ego (which is what I think he did with how Colin Baker was scripted and briefed as to play the part).

At least the real cliffhangers (for Vengence on Varos and Mark of the Rani) have been pretty cool!

"Mark of the Rani" looks like its going to be a good story.............. I've not seen it since the 1980s!!!!

Come to think of it...I wonder what beauties ABC would show us if they decided to cut the 2005 series into the half hour format?

Eh???????????



P.S. "Mark of the Rani" is by far the best of Colin Baker's stories!

Well now we're up to the Two Doctors, and some slightly better Cliffhangers Though the one tonight  was a shocker..... ending with the Doctor asking to be taking to the Mansion where the Sontarons are.... by the way.... do you Sontarons seem like pussys in this story?? In the 1970s they meant business, not in this story it seems.



p.s. Colin Baker is the Master

Colin Baker suffered from over - the - top syndorme! Everything he did was operatic, flamboyant to the extreme,and highly egocentric.



"The Two Doctors" was a poorly executed story that lapsed into pantomime, with a few shades of the macarbe thrown in to make it off balance (Jacqueline Pearce licking up spilled blood!!!!). Troughton and Hines had aged far too much to make them credible for that time zone, and there were too many inconsistencies to make the story even remotely papable (oh, let's introduce the Time Lords and the concept of regeneration to Jamis in his last story, "The War Games" - what the?????)

And "The Two Doctors" was far too sentimental - just like "Attack of the Cybermen". I think that Nathan Turner was just reusing Dr Who cliches and folk lore throughout the whole of season 22, with lots of violence and Nicola Bryant's heaving cleavage thrown in as well. A disappointing and tacky season that was on self destruct.



And the Sontarons had already been turned into inept twits in "The Invasion of Time" - the C Baker story was just continuing in that fashion.



NO OFFENCE TO ANY COLIN BAKER FANS INTENDED

LOL, I must submit, the Two Doctors was a shocker. Not so much with the concept but the production values.



Surely, back in the 1980s,  they had some black hair dye they could have combed through Patrick Troughton's hair to make him look a bit more authentic.



I don't mind a bit of sentimentality and folklore, but I do agree it must have it's place and you are correct in Season 22 it was overused.



I like in the new series how the writers have thrown in mysteries and concepts about the Timelords (and their destruction) to excite the imagination. However, Season 22 leaves little to the imagination, they rabbit on about the Timelords all through the Two Doctors, leaving no mystery at all. (Just like Nicola's heaving clevage, nothing left to the imagination LOL)



Anyway, the concept was good, production values poor (not my friend Colin Baker's fault) Perhaps, also, they should have reconsidered the casting. Maybe Jon Pertwee or Tom Baker would have been more suitable to the part. (Maybe not Tom as he would have overshadowed Colin too much early in his career)



At least both these Doctor's had some dealing with the Sontarons and I think Jon's Character would have been best to compliment Colin's character in the story, what do you think Jimmy?



And what is the point of pussy Sontaron Armor if a simple knife from the Highlands can penitrate it???????

I totally agree with you Sneb!!!

Pertwee is my personal favourite of the Doctors (though it is very hard to say that because I have two equal second favourites after him!!!!!) and he would have been a perfect foli for Baker's irrascible personality - and he was the best at facing off at formidable monsters/ egoists (esp. Sontarons and Jacqueline Pearce;) )

> Pearce was revolting in Blake's 7 and I have absolutely no idea why she's considered a sex symbol. Her voice is cold and decadent, her posture reflects her aloof character, and she acts as though she's God's gift to man)

> Nicola Bryant - delectable!!! Like a fine vintage shiraz cabernet, she just keeps getting better with age!!!!!



"The Two Doctors" is possibly the biggest let down in Doctor Who's canon. I mean, what was Holmes thinking??? The writer who was responsible for absolute classics like "The Deadly Assassin", "The  Time Warrior" and "Pyramids of Mars" (and who was script editor during Tom Baker's finest hours) wrote such a load of clumsy sentimental drivel - what a shame!!!!!! The Sontarons were under used (and lacking in intelligence and violence!!!), and Shockeye was embarassing........apparnetly the guy who was meant to be an old friend of the Doctor was partially blind - that must explain his funny walk and those silly '80s shades!!!!



However..........

I have just started watching "Trial of a Timelord" today - and I've not seen it properly (ie with full attention and all the way through) since it was first aired on the ABC back in the '80s.

So far I think it is bloody brilliant.

The script is classic Holmesian (its like being back in the prime of Season 14), the cast are talented, Nicola Bryant is gorgeous, Glitz and his counterpart are hilarious (with perfect delivery of well crafted dialogue!) and Baker's Doctor is a likable mix of self assured eccentric and anti hero (he's reminding me of Tom Baker in this Season 23 portayal).



What a terrible, terrible shame that the BBC axed the show (and shafted Colin Baker) just as it had rejuvinated itself!!!!

 

Good to see you have good taste Jimmy, Pertwee is excellent. My Favourite also, second only to the Master Colin Baker of course LOL



The Two Doctors would have made an amazing story is Pertwee had been involved!!!



Pearce is quite repulsive in the few Blake's 7 I have seen. Though she is more appealing in the Two Doctors, but would probably appeal more so to the warped mind, because is pales in comparison to Bryant



I remember in Primary School neither myself or any of my friends could remember seeing Colin on TV. We would bag him along with everyone else, because he was after all universally considered 'The Worst Doctor'!!!



When Trial of a Timelord was released on Video in the Tardis Box set I got it for Christmas. After it had been passed around for all my friends to view when we all got back to school we were all of the same opinion.



Colin Baker wasn't as bad as we were lead to believe. In fact he was quite good!



Trial of a Timelord is a showpiece of Doctor Who. Strong Plot, Good Cliffhangers, (Some interesting twists towards the end from what I remember, as I haven't seen it in years), a mix of vibrant Characters, Good Production Values (not too many dodgy sets and props)



Really, Colin Baker should only be judged on Trial of a Timelord and not on the shameful mistakes of JNT and Saward the Shocker Script Editor in the previous Season.



The BBC pointed their gun at the wrong person!!! And I feel that Trial was the last great hurrah of the show until it's demise.... with the exception of a few bright lights along the way of Dragonfire, Remembrance of the Daleks, Curse of Fenric and perhaps Silver Nemesis.



Really looking forward to the next few days of the Trial

I was reallly looking forward to the next few days of "Trial of a Timelord", but it appears that the ABC has taken it off the air for now - BUGGER!!!!!!!



I just hope that normal broadcasting will resume ASAP!!!!!



I agree that "Trial of a Timelord" should be used by fans for there judgement over Colin Baker's portrayal of The Doctor - furthermore because he seems relaxed in the role now. Its as if we are now seeing not only a stable regeneration (remember how throughout his first season there were constant references to him not recovering from his regeneration - and again, this made the plot weak and it was as if they were just making excuses for what was a very unlikable portrayal of The Doctor), but also a clear direction as to how Baker is supposed to act as The Doctor, as an eccentric who still has compassion and wit (he really lacked both these qualities in his first season).



You like Pertwee, eh????

I thought his dress sense, stiff upper lip, morality and strong character (oh, and the Venusian karate ) made him the best Doctor. Many fans say he was the James Bond version of Doctor Who with Jimi Hendrix dress sense!!!!! I certainly liked his wardrobe!!!!

The UNIT stories (though they got tedious near the end) were a good change of pace from the 'monster era' of Troughton, and the dynamics between The Brig, Jo Grant and The Doc and others was excellent.

Oh, and don't forget The Master - Delgado, of course!!! Not that pantomime version developed by Anthony Ainley



My favourite Pertwee stories would have to be the whole of his first season (which was packed with intelligent stories and great action), "Terror of the Autons", "The Claws of Axos", "The Mind of Evil", "The Sea Devils", "The Three Doctors", "Planet of the Daleks", "The Green Death", "The Time Warrior" and Planet of the Spiders"

>There was a lot of mysticism and philosophy in Pertwee's stories - especially in the ones by Robert Sloman (eg. "The Time Monster", "The Green Death" and "Planet of the Spiders". I think that's another reason why I liked his era so much.

.........But the cellophane and carboard sets (and the hazy CSC effects!!!!) have meant that the production values have not aged well!!!

>Compare that era with the 2005 series - Eccleston himself said in an interview that he did not like watching Doctor Who because of the dodgy production!!!!

Indeed Pertwee's Era was excellently structured, with a good array of Monsters, but even better continuity with Villains and Stories (i.e. The Master, UNIT – point taken about the tediousness, The Curse & Monster of Pleadon stories) Each Season would build and expand on the other, a bit like Star Trek TNG and DS9.



It really made Doctor Who a Series, I felt, rather than a broken list of events like the 1960s Era. (Though there are plenty of Classic ‘once offs’ in those years – Tomb of the Cybermen being my favourite and the first ever Dalek story was years ahead of its time)



Though you will have to forgive my ignorance, I must have been asleep in my Year 12 Drama class when they explained Pantomime. As I did not know what it meant I looked it up on the net… “a story told without words or props.” Now I know sometimes the character dialogue and props in Doctor Who are cheap and dodgy but what exactly do we mean when we apply the word pantomime to Doctor Who? (Even one of the actors in the Special Features of the Revelation of the Daleks DVD refers to Pantomime? In my quest for knowledge this word is driving me crazy ARGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! LOL)



And keeping this post in context of the original topic…. The cliffhangers of Pertwee’s Era were magnificent

One of the reasons the Pertwee era is so coherent is that it's the first time we get the same production team for a well defined period (although Derrick Sherwin produced Spearhead From Space). This doesn't happen again until the eighties, when Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy's tenures benefit from this.

What I didn't like about the Pertwee era was the length of the stories. Some were genuine six episode ideas which kept sustaining the premise evenly, but too many stories had too many episodes. The format was (in no particular order) 4-4-6-6-6. In the Tom Baker era they chopped two six parters into three four parters thus gaining an extra story a season, thus 4-4-4-4-4-6. This did place more financial strain on the season overall, leading to cheap four parters. I'm ok with the odd season cheapie rather than fewer stories which have been stretched.

What you're after with pantomime is a comparison not with the classical form, but the British one--Christmas Pantomime. This means they are saying Susan keeps crying "There's a monster on the scanner" while the Doctor keeps looking up after it jumps behind a cardboard prop and the Master keeps declaiming "Oh yes there is!" while the audience calls back "Oh no there isn't!".

Much of Dr Who took on that type of pantomime element with The Master doing his nasty laugh and companions saying, "Doctor, I saw something horrible over there!" and The Doctor reassuring them that they were seeing things. Sometimes this worked very well (remember the mind projection of Sutekh inside the TARDIS in Part One of Pyramids of Mars), but other times it was suited to children's fantasy (eg Claws of Axos, The Daemons, The Time Monster)

.......And The Master would always do his evil laugh and discuss how he was going to take over the universe just before he was going to kill off the Doctor and Ms Grant......that formula was used quite frquently in most Master stories (especially in Pertwee's era)..........However, "Terror of the Autons", "The Mind of Evil" and "The Sea Devils" portayed The Master at his most malevolent and the stories and action were a cut above the others. Those ones were my personal favourite Master stories (loved the sword fight in "The Sea Devils"!!!)



It's interesting to note how each Dcotor seemed to have its own unique production schedule/format (excluding 'the reign of Turner!!!!!).

Hartnell - mysterious and eccentric authority figure whisking young people to alien planets and interesting periods in history

Troughton - "The Magical Mystery Tour" era wherein most stories the regulars would encounter all manner of strange monsters, who were usually trying to take over outposts of humanity and then conqueor the Earth.

Pertwee - The UNIT years, and the clash between the Doctor and his dialectical opposite, the Master.

T. Baker - The bohemian, alien, anti - authoritarian wanderer throughout eternity. With lots of classic stories where the show took on it's cult/'adult' format in Seasons 13 and 14.

Davison - More wanderings throughout eternity.

C. Baker - More wanderings throughout eternity.

Mc Coy - Even more wandering throughot eternity, and lots of dabbling into Ace's psyche in the final season.



The 'wandering throughout eternity' was perfected in Seasons 12 - 14. The formula of horror and suspense was developed with interesting characters, intriguing sub plots, horror themes, tightly scripted stories (mostly!), connections to classic 'earth - literature' (eg Frankenstein, Jekyl and Hyde), sexy companions and a more alien interpretation of the Doctor. This formula was then abandoned with Season sixteen's Key to Time legacy, and I don't think the show ever really recovered from that narrative confusion (except for Season 19).



Any comments?????????