Thanks Martin and Jimmy for the explainations of pantomime in Doctor Who I do see it occuring far too often, but I suppose that formula for TV was most successful throughout the 60s and 70s, but finally started to age a little too much in the 80s which I suppose contributed to the downward slide of the show (along with many other factors)



I like it how you have broken down each of the Doctor's Eras Jimmy, and I agree that Doctor Who in it's Classic series reached it's Apex in Mid-Tom Bakers Era. (However, I do hate the Talons of Weng-Chiang and this is always considered a masterpiece)



I spmetimes struggle to find any significant upward bumps in Davison's Era and whilst there were some classics in Season 19, 'Earthshock' and 'Castrovala' (Probably the best first story of any Doctor) I always felt Davison was a miscast for the Doctor. He was weak of body and wit, and quite bland without much screen presence and I blame him more so than Colin Baker (The Master) or McCoy for the downward slide of Doctor Who. He was the beginning of the end (along with the other two stooges Saward and JNT)



NO OFFENCE TO ANY DAVISON FANS INTENDED



I believe the two major highlights (Season-wise) between Mid Tom-Baker Era and the cancellation of the show were Season 23 Trail of a Timelord and Season 26.



I acknowledge that Battlefield, Ghost Light and Survival probably needed a little massaging to make the classics but I thought the production team was taking the right steps into bringing Doctor Who into the 1990s and Curse of Fenric was a masterpiece that Doctor Who needed a little earlier in the piece to help change the direction and save the show.



What do you think???

I totally agree with you about "The Talons of Weng Chiang" (SNORE!!!!).



I also partially agree with you about Davison - the stories that you identified as being 'classics' certasinly are just that.

However, I am not a 'Davison fan' as you are with Colin Baker, but I did think he was a very good interpretation of The Doctor that had 2 major limitations placed on his performance:

1) He had to be everythithat Tom Baker wasn't, and that also meant standing in Baker's larger than life shadow.

2) J-N-T gave him very little direction as to what the heck he (and the show) were meant to be doing!!!!

*Davison's era can also be characterised as the 'soap opera' era with Adric, Tegan and Nyssa having domestics in the TARDIS. The show was definitely beginning to lose its direction, and I don't think this was Davison's fault. His interpretation of The Doctor as a refined yet vulnerable gentleman lacked eccentricity and potency, but it was still likable, and was necessary considering the over the top antics of his pubescent (or only just out of puberty!!!) companions.



Colin Baker got likable in his second year, and if he had stayed on, he would have been much more appreciated......again, this is J-N-T's fault.



I am not au fait with McCoy's era. I must admit that I turned off in boredom in 1989 and did not watch Mc Coy's stories. I've only watched a few videos, and I must admit that I find them (yet again!!!!!) lacking in direction. There was so much going on about Ace (and in my opinion she wasn't at all likable).

I will have to watch the Mc Coy re runs carefully so that I can try to appreciate his interpretation.

Actually, from what I've seen, I think his clown - like character (with a sinister dark side luking down below) was very good. I just think that his stories (Andrew Cartmel and J-N-T to blame - J-N-T yet again!!!!!!) were crappy.



Conclusion: J-N-T was the nemesis of his own production and should have gone on to Eastenders or something like that when Davison decided to move on.

FINALLY!!! Someone who agrees with me on The Talons of Weng Chiang If you goto the Doctor Who Dynamic Rankings Website somehow it is top of the list as the all time best??? AGRH!!!! Everyone help me vote it as Zero LOL And Colin Baker as 10/10



http://www.dewhurstdesigns.co.uk/dynamic/



I like what you had to say Jimmy, at the end of the day JNT is th great nemisis!!! He should have been sacked by the BBC all together and not even given a chance on Eastenders



I suppose we can't really be too harsh on McCoy! Because he was only really a last minute band-aid job for the show. Given no real direction on how to play the part like Davison. Though he does start to shine towards the end a little bit I am sure you will enjoy reviewing his era which is upon us on Tuesday



Interestingly, the only Doctor given direction by JNT was Colin Baker,,,, so we are probably lucky that JNT gave little direction to Davison or McCoy or else Doctor Who may have folded in 1984!!!

Mc Coy was given little direction, eh?



Now that's interesting 'cos he's the only thing that seems to shine during his era. The stories are eratic, over plotted or tacky (eg "Curse of Fenric"/"Ghost Light"/"Survival", over plotted because there's too much going on about Ace and her issues - and The Doctor's mystery), eratic becuase you get classics like "Battlefield", and then absolute rubbish like "Silver Nemesis", and tacky like "Time and The Rani" and "Paradise Towers"

> NOTE: I am only going by memory here, by from what I've heard from other sources, I may not be too far off the mark?????



But Mccoy seemed to know what he was doing. His 'dark clown' was very Doctorish - I quite liked him. Even in the very silly opening story, he shows the manic energy of Troughton, and the authority of both the Baker's, while also developing his own flamboyant and glib persona (that hides a dark and mysterious character). I think he played it well and am very surprised to hear from you that he was provided with little direction - obviously he 'knew' the show then.



Thanks for supporting me on "The Talons of Weng Chiang"!!! Like you, I gaze at disbelief over its popularity ratings and am amazed that it beats phenomenal stories like "The caves of Androzani", "Earthshock", "The Deadly Assassin", "Genesis of the Daleks", "Spearhead From Space" and "Terror of the Autons" - which, among others, go in my personal top 10. (Though I find it very hard to 'rank' my favourite stories!!!!!)

Anyway, what was so good about "Talons"? The only bit that I really liked was seeing Louise Jameson get her blouse wet

Seriously, what is it with that story???? The ventriloquist thing was silly, and Magnus Greel sounded like a bad tempered Lung disease sufferer.  Also the false Asian accents and sterotypes were improper and degrading toward Asians...........I could rant about that story for ages, and give it more time than it deserves!!!!!



Don't you think Nathan Turner would be at home in Eastenders with all its soapy waffle - there could have been a unit rented out with a bad tempered Australian, a boy genius and girl with delusions of royalty joining the story!!!!

You didn't like Curse of Fenric Jimmy *faint* I thought that was McCoy's 2nd best next to Remembrace of the Daleks... and Silver Nemesis wasn't so bad was it? ....... except I am sure I could see the Brand name GM on the spray painted Cybermen cricket gloves



I mainly get my info. about McCoy from the Colin Baker sites when it talks about his sacking/resignation from the show. They often talk about McCoy being the last minute band-aid solution. Though I do think he kicks into gear by his last season.... his first season (excluding Dragonfire) is utter dribble,,, I have often wanted to switch the TV off over the past few days but I have persevered,,,, but maybe that is Bonnie Langsford and her annoying scream



All those stories you mentioned are classics, though there is another I think is vastly under-rated that I am always most happy to sit down and watch again and again... Warrior's Gate, what do you think of that one Jimmy?



DOWN WITH JNT!!!!

"Warriors' Gate" - I don't know how many times I've sat down to watch that story and understand it. I'm sure that it's an intelligent story and one that has some sophisticated concepts - but it's far too clever for me!!!! I still don't understand it at all. What was that story about???? (Oh, and then there is the awful acting from the supporting cast!!!! - I think that made it even harder for me to understand the plot)



No, I didn't really like "The Curse of Fenric". So I guess I will be executed or ex communicated from/by the SFSA at our next meeting

I understand that it is sacred cow among Dr Who circles, but honestly, the only Mccoy story that I found really enjoyable was "Battlefield" - and I LOVE Arthurian legend (except reading "L'amour D' arthur" by Malory gave me A LOT of migraines!!!!!)



McCoy's first season is bloody awful.

Absolutely bloody awful.

Now I am a BIG Dr who fan, but even I can clearly see that the show was running on empty and needed to park the TARDIS by this stage. Instead JNT decided on a slow and painful death for the classic show. Mccoy was the only thing holding the show up. The stories were farcical, immature and idiotic. The acting was terribly weak - epecially Bonnie (SCREAM!!!!!!!) Langford (did she think she was co - hosting a outer space version of Play School????), and the music is like hearing a 1980s computer game in a local fish and chip shop.

I've never seen "Delta and the Bannermen" before, and all I did was sit there and cringe throughout the whole first two parts. What were they thinking!!!! It's not even worthy of the classification of pastiche!!!! The whole thing was vile - I can't think of constuctive criticsm of the story because all it involved was silly musical sound effects, weak acting from a cast that behaved like clowns (especailly that ticket collector person!!!), a non sensical plot, and just plain stupid.....I can't think of the word.........all I can say is that rubbish like that makes me ashamed of being a Dr Who fan........AND......that it should have come as no surprise that the show was going to be axed. What an embarassment!!!!!!!



The last classic story was "The Caves of Androzani" - with the exception of "The Trial of a Timelord" and "Battlefield" - you can forget ALL the rest.

Then start watching the show from McGann's underrated appearance onwards.



P.S. I think Eccleston was quite good, but I just wish they had given McGann more of a go.

The Warrior's Gate is a masterpiece Because it is so clever it keeps you thinking all the way through to the end and afterwards



This address fully explains what the story was about http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sps/serials/5s.html



I can vaguely remember Battlefield and my impression was that I liked it, but couldn't really remember why I rarely side with the majority but on the point of The Curse of Fenric I must agree It is brillant.



As for season 1 of McCoy, which finished tonight, I am happy to see the end of Mel But not exactly overwhelmed by Ace joining the Doctor, but I suppose it is the lesser of two evils



I would rank Dragonfire as one of McCoy's better outings (some pointless parts of the story though, why was the doctor climbing over the cliff? why did Kane commit suicide? why why why???) But I am sure that you would have appreciated the philosophy in the dialogue with the guard Jimmy



I thought Delta and the Bannerman wasn't too bad, had some really good concepts (and some shockers) though it was executed badly.



I felt the interaction with the characters was excellent, I hated the bad guy, Govork or whatever his name was, I felt sorry for the girl 'Ray' who was ignored by Billy, I thought the Owner of the Shangri-La was an entertaining stereotype, I felt happy when the bounty hunter got some of his own back etc etc. I was engaged on an emotional level with this story



What do you think Jimmy? Your thoughts

The anonymous scribe who used to write the "It's the end..." column for DWM explained how on initial screening he only saw parts 2 and 4 of Warrior's Gate. Now that'd be confusing!

That Warriors' Gate story is too much to think about right now in my life.......does that site link you left have anything to do with Physics, Sneb? If so, I'll be unable to interpret it!!!!!!

I stuffed my Economics degree during my third year of Uni cos it was all Math!!!



Now, to business: Ace was awful aswell (in my opinion). She's meant to be some kind of gung - ho tomboy with a mysterious past that is somehow connected with The Doctor. A new formula of totally unaesthetic late 80s feminism to replace Bonnie (SCREAM!!!!!!) Langford. Whatever she was/is, I still can't stand her!!!!



There was nothing at all good about "Delta and the Bannermen", but 'good' is a relative concept...........ooooh I can feel the fires of Hades burning!!!!! (ot its just this awful Adelaide weather )



"Dragonfire" was so annoying - but, yes, I did like that little bit of philosophical dialogue! Unfortunatley, it didn't outweigh the sheer strength of the overwealming awfulness of the overall story!!!!!



I just can't get into the McCoy 'flavour' of Doctor Who. He's a great Doctor, but his stories, companions, and that bloody awful incidental music makes his era almost unbearable to watch. Actually, I'm being a maochist, because I can't stand his stories (so far) and I'm only watching them because I've not seen them all and I'm a fan of the (pre - Mc Coy) show.



If "Happiness Patrol" was under the 1970s Hinchcliffe and Holmes masterful production and scripts, that story would have been full of IMPLICIT and SUBTEXTUAL irony and social comment that would have complimented a good sci fi yarn so that it would appeal to auiences of all ages. Instead under Nathan - BLOODY - Turner and Cartmel, we get a story that just blatantly shows that PEOPLE CANNOT FAKE HAPPINESS and that THERE IS A DICTATORSHIP THAT MUST BE FOUGHT. There are no clever twists in the plot, the story just rips off 1984 as cliche and it has no subtlety, style or quality. Instead we are provided with a monster made of sweets (WHAT???!!!!!), a sexually frustrated/neurotic feminist dictator, and a bunch of poorly used British actors fumbling their way through a story that has taken Sociology/Politics and served it up in a Play School format.

In short, the story was childish, pathetic and woefully executed.

Summary - Exterminate all those that were involved in it's production!!!



Quality sci - fi with irony, subtexts and good scripts will prevail - and roll on that new series with David Tennant!!!!

James tell us what you really thing? and this time don't hold back.

About what?

You've confused me!

In your post on the 21/1 you told us no holds barred what you felt about season 23.



I was being sarcastic.

That site is just a physics school I think Jimmy, the page is actually created by a student Excellent quick reference for plot, ratings, audience appreciation etc.....





Just saw the rest of Silver Nemesis.... hadn't seen it for a while. After the 1st episode on Friday I thought we were in for a treat.... sadly we were in for a disappointment.  Too many characters with unexplained motives. Like the Adolf Hitler guy.... how did he ever first find out about the Nemesis... and what happened to his mate the solider, he was no where to be seen in the end.



The Cyberman were piss weak,,, they were pretty weak in Attack of the Cybermen anyway I guess (they could be killed with bullets to the head in Attack)



I better stop before I get into bagging it too much



At least it was better than Hapiness Patrol which had a lot of potenial as you pointed out Jimmy, but once again the master of poor execution,,, JNT,,, struck again and turned it into a circus.



Talking about Circus isn't Greatest Show in the Galaxy next? I remember I hated that,,, maybe I will have a new found appreciation for it



I think that viewers, based on what the ABC have shown us so far, could judge Season 25 as bad as Season 24... and that's because they missed the Classic Remembrance of the Daleks I watched in on Sunday though..... it is a masterpiece



I forgotten the point I was trying to make...... hmmmmm did I have a point?.... time to stop now

At 4 in the morning I'm winding down (been studying all day and all night) - but winding down IS THE ONLY WAY to describe the McCoy years.



What a load of rubbish.



Sorry McCoy fans - he was an ok Doctor - but the stories, production, script, characters, music direction (the whole bloody lot) is purile and farcical. I wouldn't give any of the stories screened so far any more than 1out of ten (and that '1' is only for McCoy's performance).



How dare JN bloddy Turner turn the Cybermen into glitzy jokes. after the fantastic formula he devised in "Earthshock" he goes and makes them piss weak pansies.

Oh dear!

I'm glad you are winding down, is it you talking or the 15 cups of coffee?

This website gives me an opportunity to escape reality (assessment plans, lesson preparation, marking, training and development............), so I like to let offf my steam by having a real go at JN bloody Tuner and writing about how good TBaker and Pertwee were as The Doctor!!!!

escape as much as you like into the pertwee/TB era but even thou this was the golden age of the doctor we must try to appreciate what came before and after.



becouse if we had no before there would be no now and if there is no after what have we got but our memories.



Memoiries can wait and live for tommorow we (apologizes for the night before)

But time is circular.............try defining 'now' (the present) - especially when on the Internet!!!!!

Well Jimmy, we just had your favourite Battlefield on? Any renewed hope for the remaining McCoy stories?



I can only describe Battlefield in two words.... PURE PANTOMINE.



hehehe just kidding it was cool

"Battlefield" was the first satisfactory story from the McCoy years - and I really hope that "Ghost Light" will be of this standard or better. I've never seen "Ghost Light", and from what I've heard, it's supposed to be good.



"Battlefield" has too much feminism (that horrible new Brigadier) and terrible overacting on the part of Mc Coy (when he screams he sounds like he's got lung disease!). BUT......it does have the magic that makes it a good yarn - and is a great way to see the Brigadier (Alisdair Gordon Lethrbridge - Stewart) out in his twilight years.

And I loved the Arthurian legend!!!!



Now.......will "Ghost Light" be as good as DWM and other fanzines say it is?