P.S. "The Tenth Planrt" was a great story - it's just so bloody annoying that we don't have Part 4!!!!!



I still say you can forget all of Season 22 (except for "Attack of the Cybermen")  - and that ridiculous, infantile, purile, lousy, abominable, awful McCoy era!

While I may not have found the episode (Tenth Planet 4) I do have a surprise for you at the next meeting then...

Can't wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No the tape sadly did not have tenth planet 4 it was only a reconstruction

Jimmy date=25/02/2006 14:04 : Sneb has made a good point about Susan - but there is also the little bloke from "The Armageddon Factor", Romana and K'anpo........oh, and The Master.

Not everyone from galifrey is a Timelord, eg the Guards and technicians.

Susan never actually got that far (my understanding of the episodes shown overtime).

As for the others, the Master died in the movie, and all timelords apart from the Doc were killed, but would the Rani fight for the Timelords?

And are the Timelords dead? or are they hiding from time and the Doctor. After all the Daleks survived.





Brenton

Good point, Brenton!



If nothing else there's the Shebogans (or outsiders) from Invasion of Time. Susan's status is difficul to say as the phrase "time lords" only shows up in The War Games, so while there's been speculation (notably Eric Saward's text story Birth of a Renegade in the Radio Times 20th Anniversary special and Andrew Cartmel's "masterplan" briefing document), it's open to argument.



So coming from Gallifrey dosn't necissarily make you a Time Lord. Is it something innate? Learned? Or just claimed?

Hey guys - that is VERY interesting!!!!!!!!



Now I'm thinking, perhaps the 'powers' of the 'Time Lord' is something that is conferred or learned at the Academy (you know, how they each have their colours - I remember the Doctor's sect was coloured orange). So things like regeneration and the knowledge of space time travel are part of the induction process at the Academy - and with Honours, Masters, and Phd (Docotorate!) the 'Gallifreyan' becomes a more powerful 'Time Lord' - capable of regeneration, time space travel, etc. That would then explain the Shebogans becuse they refused to be part of the Time Lords establishment (so therefore they are not  trained in these arts), and it also explains the guards and technicians because they were part of the working class of Gallifrey (their training would not have included regeneration in the curriculum!), so therefore they were not part of the snobby academy, so therefore they too were not trained in the Time Lord arts.

>I'm starting to think it may have been a lot like Plato's Republic, and the Time Lords were the enlightened Guardians with the knowledge of the true forms of reality (the 'Gold' segment of Gallifreyan society).......the Guards were 'silver', the tech's were 'bronze' and the Shebogans could fulfill the role of slave (or hippie!)



> What do you think, Martin????

I just had another thought..........what I just wrote makes Gallifrey sound like a very elitist and class based society - so are they really as 'good' and peaceful as they say they are????? Perhaps that's another reason why The Doctor wanted to get away from them (in the original storyline proposed by CE Weber, The Doctor had found an ideal future that could possibly happen in his travels. He was pissed off with his own people and all that he had seen prior to this reality, so he was on a personal mission to dabble with time to make this future a reality).



> and Brenton, I personally like the idea of the Timelords still being around......hiding in time (but why would they be hiding???)

Read and Williams (and Holmes?) might have been going for something like the Republic. The only Who writer I know has studied philosphy is Louis Marks--please correct if I'm wrong.



I've just gotten a copy of Licence Denired, and the first thing it opens with is Jan Vincent-Rudzki's vitriolic review of The Deadly Assassin on first screening!



Brenton's comment brings to mind  Lawrence Miles' plans for the Time Lords--he did originate the time war concept, which has travelled far from his intentions...you won't see him writing for the TV show!

This are some very interesting Doctor Who facts I never knew about, thanks guys



Talking about an elitist society, there is a High Council of the Time Lord's, maybe the members on the High Council get more special powers again over an ordinary Time Lord? After all the Lord President gets to wear the slash of Rasilon, the Matrix etc etc. That sort of stuff would make him like the ultimate Time Lord? (quite like the SFSA Lord President is the ultimate Dr Who Fan!)



And remember the Doctor has been Lord President before so maybe he too has inheritted extra powers over the standard run of the mill Time Lords and the Pleb guards etc.



And in the War Games isn't there like a War-Lord and Security-Lord in addition to the baddy Time-Lord? (I have to pull th video out and find out) So maybe you can take a different degree at the Academy???? heheheh

The political strucutre of Gallifrey is second only to Star Wars in its Byzantine inpenetrability to the viewer. They've got a presidency which appears to be inheritable (?!?), and a Chancellor who's there to turn evil. The High Council consists of these two, some Councillors and Cardinals who also run the Academy. And a security chief position called "Castellan", which is invariably filled by someone totally inapropriate for the role. And why not?

sounds like ordinary politics to me.

Season 23 was without doubt the worst season ever.  The stories were hastily cobbled together bunch of nothings, and the companion of Mel was appalling.



As soon as Peter Davison left, Dr Who started dying the slow death.  When Davison left, so should have JNT and Eric Saward.



Most of the stories from Seasons 20 onwards, just traded off the memory of past adventures, which reminded fans of better times.

which one is season 23?

Season 23 was the Trial of a Timelord; despite the thread name my target was season 22 (Colin's other year), and the unfortunate chopping of 45 minute episodes in half leaving non-cliffhangers for us OS viewers.

I didnt mind S22 but S23 was a trial to watch.

"Season 23 was without doubt the worst season ever. The stories were hastily cobbled together bunch of nothings, and the companion of Mel was appalling.



As soon as Peter Davison left, Dr Who started dying the slow death. When Davison left, so should have JNT and Eric Saward.



Most of the stories from Seasons 20 onwards, just traded off the memory of past adventures, which reminded fans of better times."



I agree with Axel F completely!



Who are you?????



You're on the ball, whoever you are

And another thing.... JNT should have had the guts to bring back Robert Holmes and Terrance Dicks to write more stories during his time as producer.



It was all very well to say they needed fresh ideas, but it was the older writers who really knew what made a Dr Who story work.



While I'm at it - I would love to see the new series have the Valyard return.  Whatever people say about the Trial season - he was a great villain.

The Valeyard depends a lot on what you do with him. For instance the Virgin writers guide banned him, describibg the character as "boring". The closest they got was the Sixth Doctor doing a bit of a Valeyard turn in Millennial Rites. I believe the BBC Books have the same prohibition.



The Big Finish audio He Jests at Scars saw Michael Jayston return as the Valeyard. It's most people's least favourite, more because there's a great disdain for Gary Russell than for the character or the actor. I think all three have potential.

It is not the worst one of the series there was one in which I can not remember the title  that I could not  finish listening to.



As Martin said about the second doctor, its the good writing that makes the series, so if the valeyard was written well he could be a interesting villian.