Hey Friends,,,, probably a question that has already been answered.... but I only just found this site a few weeks ago when Colin Baker inspired me to renew my membership



What the hell happened to Telecast for stories like Frontier in Space? Ressurection of the Daleks? And I note in the Wall of Lies Issue97 that Martin sent me in the post... there will be no Revelation of the Daleks?



What's Happening? :-O

OK, you've come to the right place...thanks to the kind help of Tim Hancock (who helps the Nation family with artistic representation) and the ABC we've been kept up to date with what's been going on for the past two years. The BBC and Terry Nation's estate were in dispute over dalek rights when the repeats began on ABC. Their contract stipulated that they wouldn't transmit disputed dalek footage. Two years down the track this run is still constrained by this, despite the rift having been healed all parties apparently satisfied.

I used to think Terry Nation was just a money craving bastard, but I'm now really into "Blake's 7" (since joining the SFSA I've been indoctrinated!) and I don't think a writer capable of his observations and critique of society would be capable of being such a complete hedonist.



Obviously the Nation estate's representatives are keen to squeeze as much profit as they can out of his creative ideas.



I wonder what Nation himself would have to say about this!

I think he'd like to see his family taken care of. And I think they have a point, otherwise they wouldn't have gotten anything! Having said that I'm glad there's only enough room for one star turn. The Davis and Pedler estates are absolute pussycats about Cyberman rights, and if the Holmes estate kicked up there'd be less left of the show than he'd take with him!

Nation's family should also look after their own selves - I mean, he's also got the rights to "Blake's 7", the "Survivor" series, and he's milked the Daleks for all their worth, decade after decade.

Consider Raymond P. Cusick's memoirs regarding how he was to profit alongside Nation when the Daleks went on to the big screen (ref. "Daleks - The Early Years" BBC videotape)....and how Nation never included him afterall.



What do you know about Holmes, Pedler and Davis' copyrights - Holmes was the brains of classic '70s Doctor Who, will the BBC remember that - financially?

.......And I can recall you pointing out at the club meeting when we watched "Rose" that Holmes' was credited for the conception of the Autons.



Can you tell us more?????

I think that Terry Nation's Family have made enough cash off the different shows (mainly the Daleks) to be taken care of for a long time



By the way... whatever happened to them going out and getting a job for themselves??? Instead of budging off old Great Great Great Grand Daddy's Intellectual Property and inconvenience us fans LOL



p.s. Colin Baker is the Master

I agree with you!!!!



By the way, have you watched any "Blake's 7"????

It rocks!!!!!



P.S. Colin Baker is definitely a gentleman in person, but he was the weakest link in The Doctor's incarnations!!!!!!

Hi Jimmy,



How are you?



I remember I did watch some Blakes 7 about ten years ago during some school holidays as Blockbuster has some on their shelves.



It seemed quite good, though it was broken as all the episodes where not consecutive.



One day when I get some holidays I will have to get hold of the full set and watch it from start to finish



Help put some more cash into the pockets of the Nation Estate LOL



Colin Baker only appeared to be the Weakest Link because of John Nathan-Turner's incompetence and Eric Saward's petty Vandetta.



Factor these two issues in and if we give Colin Baker a handicap, it would work out similar to my golf handicap, and he would be the best Doctor ever



Take Care

The date of Nation's representation is not 1963 but 1967, when he withdrew the rights. So it's 62 years before the daleks are public domain.

Holmes, Pedler and Davis all have estates who could launch claims against the show for their property. In the cases of Holmes and Davis the balance of their work was as script editor which would weaken the claim. Pedler only worked with Davis, so I'd imagine they'd be best off with a joint action. But none of them have a precendent for this so it's not going to happen.

We do have some other copyright disputes in the show's history which haven't been worked out.

Excuse my naivety, but why does being a script editor weaken their claim for copyright/royalties??????

Well at least Holmes, Pelder and Davies' Estates all have class.

They are happy to share the wonder of their creations and Doctor Who with the world



Whilst Terry Nation's Estate would happily annoy all the fans with their persistent penny pinching.



The Nation Estate should remember this,,, whilst the Daleks gave Doctor Who a big boost in the earlier years. There is no longer a symbiotic relationship between the Daleks and Doctor Who.



The Good Doctor has survived hundreds of episodes without a dalek in them,,, how many episodes have had all dalek but no doctor?



The Doctor can survive without the Daleks, but the Daleks can't survive without the Doctor, so my advise to the Terry Nation Estate is to sign the Daleks over to the Public Domain today!!!! (If such a thing were possible)

Pedler and Davies were making insightful views of possible futures for humanity, and Holmes just had a knack for creating ruthless villains (and a panchant for making Doctor Who gothic).



Nation seemed to be focused on money when it came to Doctor Who - his legacy is proving this!



But there is "Blake's 7".......a great show, and I don't think its being milked.....but I may be wrong!



P.S. Apparently the Daleks were going to appear in "Blake's 7" - I can't remember why this never happened.

Lets use the example of the Master. The Master (as I have been told) was dreamed up by Barry Letts as The Show's answer to Professor James Moriarty; an equal but opposite. I promote the idea of measuring the hero against the villain, so that's already a noble aim! Alternalty, it may have been Terrance Dicks' idea, the script reads the same.
If the character emerged from someone on staff (producer/script editor) then it's part of their job to do so. If on the other hand they had left it up to the writer of Terror of the Autons, then as a free lancer Robert Holmes would have a claim to the character. None of the three do, and the Master joins the BBC side.


In contrast take the Autons. As far as I know this was a original idea by Holmes (and Spearhead From Space is derivative of his 1966 movie Invasion), so he would have a claim. This may have been a factor in the production of the Auton movies.


The only other dispute I'm thinking of was over the Quarks, the only character who pre-existed The Show in this sense was Richard Mace and you ultimately get an entire Doctor Who universe minus the Doctor in the Virgin New Adventure novels!

What Auton movies??????



And you did point out that Holmes was recoginsed as the 'inventor' of the Autons

> I like this moot point about 'The Master' (can that Jackanapes be owned?!?!?!?).......the Daleks came back to face off against Eccleston, what's the chances of a return for The Master??????

The nineties were a strange refuge to independent producers looking to nail themselves some Who universe...but as with the gentle reconstructions and feisty original novels (Virgin and Telos) it was merely an extended Jurassic afternoon before the cruel fireball of The Show becoming viable again blasted into the planet's crust ending it all...Not only were there three BBV produced Auton movies, but Downtime and "the Stranger" series, and  five Reeltime produced Liz Shaw movies (Probe).

No, I don't know about plans for either the Show or the novels. The Master was regarded as out of bounds in the BBC eighth Doctor novels (following The Eight Doctors) but I don't know why.

Those Independent Productions were pretty funky weren't they Martin?



The Stranger Series is pretty cool, like an alternate version of the 6th Doctor The Airzone Solution and Zero Imperative were quite good, with Colin Baker taking the lead role I wonder how they obtained rights for the Sontarons when they made hte production Shakedown the Return of the Sontarons? Maybe they were going cheap? Maybe we could get hold of the rights and shoot The Sontaron Invasion of Rundle Mall? A gripping story of the Sontarons trying to capture the ancient power source to rule the galaxy, which we today look at as the Malls Balls..... LOL Anyway

BTW,,,, Merry Chrismas to All!



I got Revelation of the Daleks DVD for Christmas because of Nation Estate being a tight a** and blocking the transmission here in Australia that should have happened the other day.



Interesting points at the end if anyone can shed some light? ... the Daleks enter to take Davros back to Skaro for Trial... Davros points the Doctor out to them and they say, 'he doesn't look like the Doctor, we will hold onto him and find out later after we have dealt with you'



Two Questions... since when did the Daleks hold Trials? and since when did the Daleks restrain themselves from Exterminating people for no reason? And they had a good reason, suspecting the guy in the funny coloured Jacket for the Doctor???

I've seen the first three Strangers and the first Auton. They are impressive for independant productions.

The Sontarans were another original Holmesian concept, and thus could concievably have been authorised by his estate.

We've got a club video, The Blue Death, hopefully it'll be at the January 21 Adelaide High meeting. It features Who references and is being boycotted by some of the talent which worked on it (for reasons of poor taste alone).